Should Men Dictate Sex?

Recently a guy in one of my Facebook groups stated that he had a “Three-date rule.”

According to him, any girl who “doesn’t give up the panties by the third date” is automatically cut from his “dating rotation.” His rationale? Any woman who doesn’t put out by the third date is a waste of his time and money.

WTHeck??

I don’t know what ran me hotter – his asinine policy or the fact that women in the group cosigned it. What is it about taking a woman out a few times for a dinner and a movie that makes some men believe they have the right to dictate when (much less if) she should have sex with him?

My Facebook friend (and other morons like him) better recognize:

(1) A date is just a date; nothing more, nothing less. If and when it ever becomes more than that, I’ll let you know. Not the other way around.
(2) An upgrade in our sexual status does not come automatically. Sure, you were feeling me. You had the good sense to ask me out. You even shelled out a few bucks. Goody for you. However, asking me out and spending your little change does not immediately get you an upgrade for sexual healing.
(3) Sex with me is not on demand, and it’s certainly not driven by some juvenile dating policy. (Unless, of course, we’re following my demands and my policy).

Bottom line, a woman’s personal decision about what does or does not get planted in her lady garden is just that: HER. PERSONAL. DECISION. Last time I checked each and every woman above the age of consent is autonomous and calls her own shots.

That means we’re self-contained and self-directed. Our freedom of choice encompasses every area of our life – and covers every inch of our body.

Sorry, Charlie! I don’t take dictation – and I don’t wash windows, either.

Join in the Fray: Do you “take dictation?” Support the “three date” rule? Why or why not?

Copyright © 2010 Michelle Matthews Calloway, ASwirlGirl, All rights reserved. First published at Alphanista under pseudonym Shelly Scorpio.

 

 

100 comments
CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 In case anyones interested.         HOW TO COOK A POT ROAST

Take a 3.5-5lb beef roast. Pour some vegetable or olive oil  into an iron skillet! Place the beef roast in the pan and braise both sides of of the roast to seal in flavor.  Add garlic if you like. Take a can of Campbells mushroom soup and pour it over the top of the roast. I like to add some cut up carrots and a cut up onion too, but season it to your taste. Put the lid on the iron skillet and place it in the oven on 300 degrees! Come back 2 hours later and it should be fork tender!  Prep time -approx 15 minutes wait time- approx 2 hours!

If you don't have an oven proof skillet braise it on the stove and place it in a crock pot instead.

I'm a pretty decent cook and this is one of the easier meals to prepare.

Mushroom soup is a godsend! You can also fry up pork chops, dump the excess grease and pour the soup over the top. Put a lid on the pan and let them slow cook on either 300 degrees in the oven or low heat on the stove. Check every 45 minutes for tenderness! 

LorMarie
LorMarie moderator

Thank you all for visiting. I'm developing a love/hate relationship with livefyre. It doesn't appear that I can approve comments before they are posted. Although you all are holding your own here, I am afraid that anti-bw trolls will start posting like they do at other forums. I don't have a moderator so if anyone notices anti-bw trolls, please let me know via feedback or email so that I can delete their comments and ban them. Thanks and stay tuned for knew posts.

DU2
DU2

I think french women have something to their approach to a "date". they host  simple dinner parties and invite friends male and female over and  they enjoy a good meal. It is a no pressure enviroment that she controls. He cannot hold sex over her head as he has paid for nothing and it gives her a chance to watch him in a social envrioment. She also keeps her availability a mystery and if he wants to get to know her better he has to make the effort to secure her attention and  that tells her if he is willing to make the effort to pursue her or not. I think the 3 dates or else rules would carry no power if more women were willing to walk away and not spoil these men with sex as to display  some sort of gratitude for the paltry attention he gives her.  This rule is still somewhat effective because not enough women are willing to WALK AWAY. Trust me is you do not give him any, there are 10 women in line behind you who will so he is not lost for getting laid, he just wants  the woman to believe that you will miss out on a good thing if you do not lift your skirt . Jedi Mind trick, don't fall for it.  If you  are a woman of worth  he will pay the price to  be with you in the form of a real commitment. It all boils down to what women let men get away with. Lamar Odom laid up with his girlfriend for 10 years and had 3 kids by her  but NEVER MARRIED HER. He married Kloe Kardashian after 60 days because he wanted her and she was not willing to be his shack up honey. Men know in a short period of time if they want you as a wife or not  so even if you give him sex after the 3rd date, it is no guarantee he wants  anything more from you and like someone else said on this feed you more and likely end up in his rotation pool. NO THANK YOU!

DU2
DU2

 @CAPT SMOOTH Capt Smooth there is alot of using on both sides of the coin these days and I think from the get go men and women should establish  what they are looking for in the begining. Sometimes men and women do not want the same things. I dated a guy who made it clear up front he was looking for a wife and I a husband. it did not work out between us  but we made out intentions know up front so we knew what we were working towards.  IMHO sex after 3 dates is too soon, 3 dates is hardly enough time before a woman allows a man she hardly knows inside her body and sounds close to him expecting payment for "services rendered" for buying her a couple of meals.  Second, a guy who expects sex after that short period of time really should  contact an "escort" service. They do exist and if negotiated a head of time they are guaranteed to get sex at the end of their meal if that is all they are after. Third expecting to be cooked for after a couple of dates with a netflix  or redbox? still a bit too soon  for a woman to let someone in her home she hardly knows, she would have to be really comfortable with you to allow you into her private space after a couple of dates, remember you two hardly know each other. Lastly who says the first few dates  has to involve dinner and shelling out alot of money? How about about mutually agreed on non-expensive things to do for the first few get togethers like meeting for coffee? Going to a museum? A free outdoor concert? This should not be about being cheap but more like  getting to know each other before either of you decide to invest  heavy money, time and cooking skills into someone who may not be worth the effort and should lift financial pressure off the guy and sexual pressure off the woman. If she is a woman of substance she should know if you are being cheap or just holding your cards close to your chest to see how it will play out and she should be doing the same thing.  If she is expecting 60 dollar lobster on your first date then  that should eliminate her right away  as any woman who would order the most expensive thing on the menu is very inconsiderate of her date who is paying for it. If he is expecting sexual favors after a meal, I refer back to point two, and he really should enlist an escort service.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

Ladies, being a male myself and privvy to bar and locker room talk, I can give you my insight on how the male mind works. The overwhelming majority of heterosexual males are obsessed with sex from the minute we hit puberty! If we're not having it, we're thinking about how to get it! We ARE sluts, whether you want to believe it or not! Society does not put the negative connotation on it for us like they do with women. In fact it's the exact opposite, in male circles the more women a guy beds the better his reputation! Unlike women, we never feel compelled to stop a buddy from getting laid, and we don't have to like someone to have sex with them! Men are not animals but we are pretty darn close! Some have more will power than others but all guys have their limits! The three date rule is not written in stone (different guys have different rules), but I don't care how beautiful, witty and charming you are, there will be a day when they "cut bait"! Depending how much he likes you will determine when he decides to take out the knife. 

 

Think about it logically, if were dumb enough to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on dating, valentines day, your birthday, christmas, etc and it's not going to lead to anything, you wouldn't have much faith in our financial abilities as a husband, would you? Everybody has different ideas of what they want in a relationship. For a long time I was the romantic sucker that tried to sweep a woman off her feet but I got tired of being played by unethical women! I think I saw the light the day when I was set up by a dating service with a woman (we both knew it wasn't going to work before the menus came) that proceeded to order the most expensive lobster on the menu plus a couple of those $6.00 frou frou drinks! That was the last time I ever took a first date to any place expensive!  Besides, I don't mind taking a woman out to expensive reataurants on special occasions but I need someone who can be just as happy with me picking up a pizza on the way home!

 

 

 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @DU2 Apparently our debate is annoying the crowd over at BBW so let's keep it over here. Let's also try to keep it civil.  I think we both come to this with good intentions. You've seen a lot of women that were jerked around by lazy selfish men and I've seen a lot of guys that  were treated badly by a bunch of materialistic self-centered women! You feel you have a need to protect women from bad guys, I feel I have a need to protect guys from worthless women! It could also be the fact that we both are coming to this discussion from different  directions. You've experienced the worst of men and I've experienced the worst of women! We are both passionate about defending our views!

 

 First of all, Steve Harvey is a douche trying to peddle his bullish*t books to a bunch of disgruntled women. Any one who has had the poor history with relationships that Steve has had should be going to  a lot more therapy and writing a lot less books! He likes to throw men under the bus and tell women what they want to hear so he can get them to buy more of his BS books and watch his BS show! There IS such a thing as goldiggers, women AND men (although women tend to make up a bigger percentage it's only because more men control the money) and these  are the dregs of society and as equally offensive as the jerks who use their status and wealth to pursue them! It's the same type of relationship that a hooker has with a john! No matter how you look at it, it's still love (sex) for money.

He's also pandering to you about this notion that a guy should pay for everything  and just be  grateful to be in your presence! What a load of crap!  

Both women and men are looking for a quality long term relationship, apparently we have a different idea of what constitutes quality. No quality man wants a spoiled princess that thinks all she has to provide is a pretty face and figure! Most quality men believe in the courtship process, if we like you, we want to treat you like a lady and we don't have a problem with paying for everything on the first few dates but we don't have the time nor the patience to deal with  self centered Prima donnas that feel their beauty is all they have to provide. No matter how pretty you think you are, there are plenty of women just as pretty if not prettier!

It is true that some guys are just plain toxic and I wouldn't wish them on any woman, but  I've seen just as many toxic women that I would suggest any guy avoid also! Some guys do try to twist words and keep women on the defensive to cover up their defenseless behavior and a woman shouldn't tolerate it! I am not advocating for a woman to settle for a lazy inconsiderate bum who is just going to make a woman's life harder, but I'm not tolerating this effort to try and make gold digging as acceptable behavior! It is greed and greed is a sin!  Anybody who has even the slightest knowledge of theology (or a conscience) should understand this! 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @DU2

 Heyyy!! Funny!!! I like this guy! You got a phone number? LOL!

EnJay
EnJay

@CAPT SMOOTH Sounds delish. Pot roast is pretty easy in general, and you are right about the pork chops. Great... Now I'm hungry...

Brenda55
Brenda55

 @LorMarie Actually you can approve comments before they are posted.  You have to go into the conversations folder and set that parameter for each thread.

 

Go into site Admin.  Then choose the conversation you want, then choose stream settings. 

ASwirlGirl
ASwirlGirl

 @DU2 THIS: "if he wants to get to know her better he has to make the effort to secure her attention and  that tells her if he is willing to make the effort to pursue her or not. I think the 3 dates or else rules would carry no power if more women were willing to walk away and not spoil these men with sex as to display  some sort of gratitude for the paltry attention he gives her."

 

"Paltry" is exactly right!  And this: "Jedi Mind trick, don't fall for it" - that little trick is something left over from their junior high/high school days. What the guy who tries to pull that "somebody else will" baloney doesn't realize is that he's just defined the women HE qualifies for. He's not in MY group - not vice versus. :)

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @DU2

 How about a truce? Although I've never needed to use an escort service! I'm not looking for a girl strictly based on sex! I agree with just about everything you say here. But do you think there are woman out there that would be content to do something inexpensive? I haven't met any in my social circle. Maybe I should get a new set of friends!

zabeth
zabeth

@DU2@CAPT SMOOTH

 

“…remember you two hardly know each other.” <<< This is key, you two hardly know each other after just a few dates.

 

Moreover, it typically takes women a lot longer than 3 dates to build up the rip-your-clothes-off kind of passion Smooth talked about- otherwise its lust and NOT love or making love. Women are like ovens, we need some time to heat up. I think this is a rather unrealistic, instant gratification, outlook on relationships that many people are dealing with today.

LorMarie
LorMarie moderator

@CAPT SMOOTH Men aren't any more obsessed with sex than women are. If you think the male locker room talk is heavy, try being a fly on the wall when women talk about men and sex. The only difference is, men are more willing to admit it openly. Do you think it was men that made 50 Shades of Gray (or erotica genre) popular? But if women can consider the consequences of their sexual actions and respect her dates wishes, so can men.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @DU2 And lets be honest here! You're just a stubborn as me! I don't blame everything on women but you certainly place the bulk of the blame on men! 

EnJay
EnJay

@capt smooth Oops-meant "right about the mushroom soup"

DU2
DU2

 @CAPT SMOOTH Truce yes there are women who are interested in doing something inexpensive different from being CHEAP,  but I understand not all women are this way,  and some want the 60 dollar lobster on the first date knowing they want nothing deeper and simpler dates can be an acid test for both to see where the motives really are. A sensible woman I believe would have no objections to the  first few dates  being simple, if she understands this is just  an discovery phase, BUT she will be annoyed if every date after  she and the guy agree to date on a regular basis is  free concerts and museums. I keep addressing OVER AND OVER the importance of mutual respect and I stressed that I agree with you that  any woman that tries to use a man is WRONG, but I also said expecting sex  from a woman when you hardly know each other unless you both have agreed up front you want to be friends with benefits is equally wrong. My focus is not on just sex, but each person giving  and receiving from each other with out undue pressure or expectations they may not be ready for. It is indeed unreasonable for months  and months down the line a  woman should keep expecting  to be wined and dined with no reciprocation at all, but it is equally unreasonable for a man to expect sexual intimacy  or a cooked meal after  2 or 3 dates! The people in my moms generation, the men always paid and  the men understood for the most part getting any type of action would not happen for a while. I never said you needed an escort service I said men who want sexual gratification right away should just solicit one then they know the terms and what to expect without the frustration of childish game play from foolish women and because it has been paid for, they have to follow through or refund their money!. It is very apparent you have had your share of women who were jerks but being jerky in turn  to women who have not proven to be jerks (yet) keep the cycle going to be burned.  I think that people show their fiber after 2 or 3 dates and then you can decide to cut her loose or vice versa.  Off my soapbox now. I am done.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @zabeth  @DU2

 LOL! I can wait past the three dates for the passion! I guess I'm still not getting my point across. I am not advocating that a woman be pressured into sex on the third date. I am saying that if she wants to use sex to show him she appreciates what he's done for her that's her perogative! If the guy give her an ultimatum that it has to be sex on the first date, you really haven't lost anything if he leaves! Most guys won't ever tell his date the rules! It's tacky! I bide my time and on the third date If I see it's still a case of  "It's all about MEEEEEE!" I will feed her but suggest afterwards that it wasn't going to work out and we need to part ways! I realize you ladies have a desperate need to be swept off your feet (Damn that Nicholas Sparks!), but it's unreasonable to expect a guy to keep shelling out for months or years without anything in return! I would rather die single than have to put up with a woman like that!

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @LorMarie  @CAPT

 No! Really? I can't believe anything vile or vulgar could escape the lips of you lovely ladies! LOL! I think men are a little more sex-obsessed than women considering the number of mens magazines, strip clubs, whore houses and porn shops that exist. Hell! Porn movies were made with us in mind! We get that and you get some erotic books (Do they even sell Playgirl anymore?) and the Chippindales that come around once a year! I think that's why the Gray books are so popular. They fill a need in women that doesn't exist elsewhere. Maybe it's the fact that women have more control over their urges than men. You never hear of a man reporting he was raped by a woman (most of the time we are gratefull and keep our mouth shut)! ;-) !

LorMarie
LorMarie moderator

I should also add that women shouldn't expect a man to spend big bucks on them especially if she isn't even his wife. But, be careful when you tell someone to order anything they want, LOL. They just might.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  I learned to cook when I was about 12 out of neccessity! My mother was a lousy cook and so were my grandmothers! If me and my younger brother and sisters wanted to survive childhood, I realized I would have to learn how to make a meat loaf and fry chicken! Our father grabbed something on the way home from work but left us to fend for ourselves. Talk about child abuse! LOL! 

 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  @capt

 My mother had three sisters and only one of them could cook! The overweight one. But theres an old saying, "Never  trust a skinny cook"!

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  @zabeth For a joke I found a $10 black purse at a thrift shop and went to Home Depot and found the letters G O O T C H Y and glued them to the bag and gave it to her! Needless to say she was not amused!

EnJay
EnJay

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth I strongly suspect that even if she had offered sex, it wouldn't have done much to offset the cost of a Gucci purse, lol.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  @zabeth I was working with this black girl a few years ago. She was very overweight but had a beautiful face (perfect complexion, sparkling eyes and lips that begged to be kissed). I've never minded women being overweight as long as they can be healthy. I'm all about the face anyway. It's the eyes you want to look into and the lips you want to kiss when your making love or even necking on the couch!

I asked her out  but before our first date began I had to make a trip to a large cosmopolitan city on the west coast. Before, I left she told me to bring her back a Gucci purse, not a Coach purse which I would have been perfectly happy to do, but a GUCCI purse! I figured that by the designer name it would probably be expensive. I had no idea!!!!! After the sales clerk brought the smelling salts, I made a hasty exit! Needless to say, that was one relationship I knew wasn't going to work out! Ever since then, I'm very wary of letting selfish greedy women into my life!

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  You've provided a lot of options and I would appreciate any one of them!

 

EnJay
EnJay

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth rent a movie, order a pizza, bring a nice bottle of wine, shoulder rub... a whole list of things that one would do anyway if they were into the other person. 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @zabeth    She can do more than cook for me but I don't need someone mowing my lawn or cleaning my house! I guess she could pay for the movie? If you remember right there was a third option. Picking up the tab on the third date! Even if it's just picking up a ten dollar  pizza at least it's something!

 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  Well, at least we can agree on the last part! I am not an agressive guy until provoked! I like having civil debates over these things but DU2 was getting pretty obnoxious  with her posts!  Let's face it, I'm pretty outnumbered here, but I was giving a male point of view! You got what I was saying, most of the others kept focussing on the "sex" part! I don't remember reading that the guy in the article "demanded" sex and apparently he didn't force her! He layed his cards on the table and it was her choice to accept or walk away! He (like many guys) just wanted to cut to the chase. He was classless in the way that he did it but a relationship is like a negotiation! Each person is going to have their own concept of how they want the process to proceed! Perhaps he was burned in a previous relationship with a goldigging materialistic woman and was determined not to play the sap again!

 

EnJay
EnJay

 @CAPT SMOOTH 

 

I'm not going to get involved in helping you insult the other women here.  All I will say is that once you clarified what you meant, I agreed with you on the importance of reciprocation in some way.  Men do some foul stuff to women, but I've seen women do different, equally foul things to men.  

 

 

EnJay
EnJay

 @zabeth  @DU2  @CAPT SMOOTH 

 

Oh, I see what you're saying.  Maybe I'm giving him more credit that I should - I assumed that those were just examples, not ALL he wants from a woman.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  Thank you Nicole JB! It's nice to know there is a lady or two amongst the group!

 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @DU2  

 I would like to see this debate as something civil but I guess that's going top be a pipe dream! If anyone seems dense here it is you! Instead of flying off the handle go back and reread my posts! The guy that demanded sex after the third date was extremely tacky! But he was well within his right to let her know what he expected by the third date and she has every right to refuse it! Fine! Consider it as a lesson learned early! You both can walk away without wasting any more time or money!

 

In my first post I brought up how I had 3 options! I refuse to be your ATM or meal ticket for a year before you decide to throw me a bone and do something for me in return! I'm sick of dealing with selfish, self centered women! Life is way too short! I am a living breathing person with every emotion anybody else has and when I find a decent unmaterialistic woman that can give and accept mutual respect I will consider marriage until then I'll be very happy in my single  non stressfull life!

EnJay
EnJay

 @DU2  @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth 

Who said anyone is an idiot?  And dude didn't say "sleep with me and I'll buy you dinner."  He said that he will put forth effort to court a woman, but she needs to bring something to the table as well.   I think that's fair.  Yes, he said it crudely at first, but once he cleaned it up, I was able to understand (and agree) with exactly what he's talking about.

 

No idea what you're so pissy about.  

zabeth
zabeth

 @NicoleJB  @DU2  @CAPT SMOOTH  Yes, but it's the man who does the courting. There are many ways that a woman can show her reciprocation of interest in a man other than cooking and sexing. I guess I'm having a hard time determining in what ways he evaluates a woman's interest or are these the only two or is he used to only dealing with certain types of women?

DU2
DU2

 @NicoleJB  @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth Works both ways Nicole, Women don't want to be used as a semen dump anymore than men want to be used as an ATM machine. We are not idiots ok?

EnJay
EnJay

 @DU2 @CAPT SMOOTH @zabeth 

Did you get that?  I got that he just wants to know that he isn't being used, and that women need to bring something to the equation other than "I'm cute, (possibly) smart, and I'm deigning to spend my time with you."

EnJay
EnJay

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth  @DU2  I understand what you're saying, and I think it has been made clear to the other women as well (now that you've clarified your POV), but that's not how this conversation started out, so you still have to take your flogging for that, lol.

 

 

DU2
DU2

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @zabeth Capt smooth obviously you are not reading what people are saying certain expectations are reasonable after a mutual trust and respect for each other has been established. I have said this several times but obviously it is not getting through your head so I will cease responding, you just want to debate and have no real interest in establishing an understanding. good luck with expecting Martha Stewart/Jenna Jamison after three dates.

zabeth
zabeth

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @DU2 "I am saying that if she wants to use sex to show him she appreciates what he's done for her that's her perogative!" <<< Okay, but that's not the essence of what this article was about...and you know that.

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @NicoleJB  I agree. Women can be aroused by reading erotica while men have to look at the pictures to get the same effect!

 

EnJay
EnJay

 @CAPT SMOOTH  @LorMarie  

 

Oh, don't let the smooth taste fool you!  lol

 

I think it's just more socially acceptable for men to b sexual, and that women are aroused mentally more than visually.

 

Plus rape isn't funny when having it happen to you is a real possibility. Few straight men are in that position.

 

CAPT SMOOTH
CAPT SMOOTH

 @LorMarie Wait a minute, now. I never told her to buy whatever she wanted! She just took it upon herself to be classless broad!

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